A Conversation with George Hodson

August 6, 2025.  I had a long telephone conversation with the President of the Virginia Wineries Association (VWA), George Hodson.  Since 2012, George has been general manager of Veritas Vineyards and then Flying Fox Vineyards.  He relocated his family from Florida to Virginia to take over the family business and apply his business and financial acumen to this challenging industry.  George was elected to the position at VWA in 2020.  This post is a paraphrase of the conversation using my notes with backup audio recording.  I have tried as much as possible to be faithful to what was said and the tone in which it was conveyed.  We are thankful to George for his time and candor.

 

 Photo used with permission of the subject

Roger.  A couple of months ago, I asked AJ Greely her reaction to the imposition of tariffs that had just been announced against the European Union.  She felt the tariffs would be disastrous for Virginia grape growing given how many wine producing products in the supply chain are imported from the EU.  The recent framework now has that EU tariff at 15% that might include wine and win-e related products imported from Europe.  What is your reaction from the winery perspective? 

George.  Here's the thing - I think it’s too early to see the full impact of the tariffs.  Vendors may have started putting on some surcharges and potential additional costs in anticipation of the impact.  There is a potential significant impact.  There may be some modest increases in price but the cost of a lot of things is going up not driven by tariffs.  I think it will feel like general price increases.  But some vendors may be using tariffs as an excuse to increase prices 10 to 20%.  The main sense in the industry is one of uncertainty.  Tariffs in theory will have a significant impact and more so on wine production and on viticulture.  I don’t see the impact on the growers as catastrophic.  The impact on wine making is a much larger potential impact – corks imported from the EU for instance or foil. 

There are larger issues or headwinds that we have to be concerned about:  the neo-prohibitionist movement; the place of wine as a “nice to have” in a larger economy where people are cutting-back on many purchases.  We’re not milk and eggs.  When you lose a market it’s so hard to get a market back and any negative thing works against you.  What is going to happen to the larger market.  And the general downward trends in wine consumption. 

Roger.  I was reading an old wine book the other day from the 1920’s.  The author railed against the prohibitionist movement of the time and how it overstated the evils of wine in particular.  Is wine is getting swept-up in this again.   

George.  I think you’re right.

Roger.  You mentioned in an article in April that you were considering a “tariff response team” to push Virginia wine into areas where foreign wines might have retrenched and left a vacuum from distributors to everyday sippers.  I have a vision of a flying squad of with cases of wine – I know that’s not right.  Can you give us an update?

George.  I wish it was.  The Virginia Wineries Association has an alignment with the Virginia Vineyards Association, the Virginia Wine Board, the Wine Marketing Office, and the Virginia Wine Distribution Company (VWDC) to try to increase our presence in the ABC stores.  We have created a “Virginia Wine By-the-Glass” initiative that we’re rolling out very soon to get Virginia wine to retailers and into restaurants so that there is a Virginia option and making sure the wineries can back it up.  We are trying to get more trade tastings in key markets with portfolios of all Virginia wines.  A unified effort.

Unfortunately, domestically in the wine market, there isn’t that kind-of public retaliatory thought.  In Canada, they say: “if U.S. won’t sell us bourbon without a charge, then we’re just buy Canadian bourbon.”  We don’t want to make something out of something bad.  We stand with California and Oregon producers who are now trying to find more outlets for their wine.  Most Virginia wine is sold in Virginia through tasting rooms.  We’re not trying to make lemonade out of lemons.  We can’t reach out to the pubic and say: “Screw those French wines – buy Virginia.”  That’s not the sentiment the public will resonate with.  But we are trying to take advantage of the fact that our price point now is more in line with French imports or Spanish imports or wines from the EU.  We’re reaching a place where there might be price parity and you could see it in restaurants.  And restaurants could say: “Well, okay, let’s support Virginia wine because it is not a negative for us.  Apples are now compared to apples, and we can order in some Virginia wine.” 

Roger. If I go to a grocery store, wine store or even the ABC, there is scant representation of Virginia wines on the shelves.  You mentioned in an interview that people in Sonoma, as an example, look on Sonoma as their wine territory.  How do you get people/locals to look on Virginia as their wine region? 

George. Listen, in the last 5 years that I have been on the Wine Board, or on the Monticello Wine Trail, or the Virginia Wineries Association, that is the number one question.  We bring in people from outside, and they notice going to a restaurant and there is literally no Virginia wine available.  Somehow this chasm has been created.  We thought local restaurants would flock to Virginia wines after the Wine Enthusiast declared the Monticello region as the Wine Region of the Year [2023], but they didn’t come.

There are three factors that need to change to generate more local loyalty: (1) Wineries need to come to market with reasonable prices and with reliable inventory; (2) Restaurants must commit to local wine.  Restaurants will often buy local produce even though it is usually more expensive than industrial food distributors like Sysco.  They elect to buy better quality ingredients to make better quality products for their customers.  Just like the farm-to-table movement has a positive vibe among consumers, so restaurants should commit to a vine-to-table initiative.  Just as you want to eat local – you should drink local; (3) Residents of Virginia and guests should do their part and demand a Virginia wine and buy a Virginia wine if available on the wine list.  If the wine is available someone chooses not to buy Virginia wine, it starts the (negative) cycle all over again because restaurant owners are discouraged from buying Virginia wine at all. 

It’s a three-legged stool where everyone has to do their part.  But if someone thinks it’s good to eat local then the drinking converse is true and– they should being drinking local as well.  

Buying local means jobs stay local; it supports a really vibrant and growing community.  The economic impact of Virginia wine is $2 Billion.  It creates an identity for our region.  Would you rather be in a wine region or in a place with another strip mall with a Best Buy or a PetsMart or generic Targets that are all across the country?  We need everyone to do their part.  We can’t wait for it to happen.  We have to keeping knocking on that door. 

Roger.  I took a course in Wine and Food Tourism at George Mason University where we talked a lot about Farm-to-Table initiatives.  But Wine-to-Table makes equal sense.  Most Virginia wine is grown on farms.

George.  Seems like a no-brainer.

Roger. This is two-part question, really.  In an interview back in 2023, you felt we needed to get more attention for Virginia wines outside of the state, and you suggested two main ways to do this.  The first was to get 5 to 8 wineries to commit to expanding their exposure outside of the state, like planting more acreage.  Another approach might be to entice foreign investment.  Of course, last year [2024], the French bought RdV Winery*  You had mentioned the Zonin Company, the Italian company that owns Barboursville Vineyards.  Are there some wineries moving ahead with significant expansions to try to get economies of scale?  Have you heard of other foreign acquisitions? 

George. I just ended a call with 8 wineries on selling outside of tasting rooms.  Since that interview in 2023, people have pumped their brakes on expansion.  There was a big bubble of consumption in 2020 – 2022, lots of vines were planted and we now have more grapes than we need.  This means there is available excess fruit inventory to sell and some wineries can make enough wine to sell beyond their tasting rooms at wholesale prices.  (You need that excess, otherwise, why sell at wholesale what you can sell at retail?)  For the first time we have the excess capacity to sell.  Some wineries are hiring sales representatives and some are forming coalitions of wineries to present a wider portfolio of products.  My own Veritas is in four states the last two years and is actively working on a wholesale approach.

We need to close the circle that starts with visiting Virginia wineries, sampling wines, buying wines, returning home, and then making the Virginia wines visitors like available at their homes.  And we have seen the peak of tasting room visitation in the same 2021-2022 period.  With the Pandemic, wineries were often the only source of travel and entertainment that was open.  We had outdoor space and social distancing that made winery trips safe compared to other venues. That was the high water mark.  For growth of the industry, we  need to be selling wine outside of tasting rooms because traffic there has peaked.  In a way, we are returning to the old world pre-pandemic visitation levels. 

Roger.  To do that [sales outside of tasting room] depends on how many grapes are planted.  There’s a limitation of arable land in Virginia.

George.  Yes, but we continue to find more and better locations for vines, and we’ve gotten much better at planting grapes where they should be planted.  We have expanded the acreage and number of growers and have some excess production because demand has dropped from the peak in 2020-2022.   We want to take that excess and sell it elsewhere. 

Roger.  As far as foreign investments, any other foreign acquisitions you see coming down?

George.  The French acquisition of RdV was a weight point in how Virginia wine is perceived.  But I am not aware of other pending foreign acquisitions of Virginia wineries.  Just to be clear – the outside acquisition doesn’t have to be foreign.  I would be happy with Gallo or Constellation Brands [e.g., Mondavi] being interested in a Virginia winery as it shows a serious corporate approach to what we’re doing here.  I’m not aware of a pending acquisition, but I would fain ignorance if I did know about it. 

Roger. After some rework of job responsibilities, Virginia Tech has a new extension enologist, Dr. Demi Perry (June 2025).  She has welcomed learning about the challenges that Virginia wineries are facing – presumably different from those she is familiar with in the Finger Lakes.  What are some challenges that you want to bring to her attention?

George. I just met Dr. Perry yesterday on a Virginia Wine Board call.  She has great energy.  It’s great to have that seat filled.  Together with the new viticulturalist, Dr. Drew Harner at Virginia Tech, I’m excited to see what will come.  Her timing is great.  Both the Finger Lakes and Virginia are East Coast areas so there is some parity there.  But Dr. Perry needs to find out for herself what the different challenges are.  We have many great institutions that will help her get up to speed.  The Winemakers Research Exchange (WRE), Dr. Harner, the novel grape breeding project.  Much going on.

Roger. What is the relationship between the VWA and the Winemaker’s Research Exchange (WRE) (aside from having a sister on the Board)?  What are some of the research projects that you’re most excited about from the VWA perspective?

George. I’m always impressed by the cooperative nature of the Virginia wine industry – people rowing in the same direction, sharing information.  The WRE is creating a touchpoint for a community.  Their research is nimble and responsive to what the growers and wine makers need.  Dr. Joy Ting briefed the Wine Board yesterday on their projects – it was phenomenal.  Their sensory studies are vital. 

Roger.  I had a good conversation with Joy last year and we talked quite a bit about the grape hybridizing project.  Over in West Virginia – correct?

George.  Correct.  That’s where the project is being housed because it is part of a Cooperative Research and Development Project of the US Department of Agriculture.  The fruit crop research station is in Kearneysville, West Virginia. 

Roger.  With climate change, we need to be ready to plant some varietals that will do better in heat. 

George.  Exactly.  But, even if you take climate change out of the equation, we are developing grapes with resistance to powdery and downy mildew, which is problem in the state.  Dealing with varietal resistance to disease will bring more financial sustainability, lower our prices due to less disease pressure in the vineyard, which is good for the whole industry.

Roger. I’m impressed by the sense of community – sharing of resources and knowledge within the industry. We’ve written about more than 150 Virginia wineries so far are that keeps coming up.  Virginia vineyards and wineries have been marked by their willingness to experiment and try new approaches.  Are there particular growers or wineries that stand out to you for their willingness to experiment and test received wisdom?  Who are the next Dennis Horton’s experimenting with new varietals and trying new approaches? 

George. I can think of Ben Jordan, the Jordan Brothers at Common Wealth Crush.  Also Emily Hodson [George’s sister].  Through our competitions, we have a good feedback loop with the better performing wines.  With the knowledge and research we are doing, there are fewer “cowboys” like Dennis Horton who might try something hoping it will work.  People planting Tanat, Petit Manseng, or Albariño, to name a few varietals, are constantly moving the needle of what can grow in the state.  We also have a history of what succeeds and what does not.

At Veritas, we went against traditional wisdom and planted Sauvignon Blanc.  The result was a nice wine for us.  The industry continues to innovate.  We are exploring more hybrids.  We have to be sure of customer willingness to drink hybrids.  That is a challenge, too.** 

Roger. We started off talking about tariffs, and I’d like to revisit some of the worrying trends. 

George. One question we’ve been asking for years is what generation of wine consumers will replace the Baby Boomers in the next 15 years or so.  Gen X’s are a small cohort, Millennials weren’t really picking up, Gen Z’s are  just coming into it now.  We’re constantly trying to reach these new consumers.  They see wine differently, and we need to modify our sales approach for them.  But honestly, I don’t see the old approach is changing.  We still use scores and talk about “tannic structure” and use tech sheets.  Instead, the new consumers want stories and brand loyalties. 

We have to recognize that the neo-prohibitionist movement has the data on the negative effects of alcohol.  We should not deny the data, but we must embrace the larger story of wine.  We can’t combat the data by denial.  We’re trying to figure out how to respond. 

The overall wine market is shrinking.  Part of that is how alcohol is maligned.  With the Pandemic over, other diversions are again open for customers.  Further, wine is competing with other legal intoxicants like THC beverages and RTD cocktails.***  There’s more competition.  Virginia is a little isolated or insulated from these pressures because we are still a consumer (travel) experience where people come to us.  Very rarely will someone go on a wine tour and not drink the wine.  We have to continue our visitation trend. 

Roger.  Last Christmas I went into a major bookstore and went to the shelves that had cookbooks and books on drinks.  They had lots of books on beer and cocktails, but not one on wine.  It set me back and tells me cocktails are more popular.

George.  It’s definitely true. 

Roger. There are around 300 wineries in Virginia.  Some have been around for some time.  A lot of owners are getting ready to retire or have passed on.  Do you have a sense of the work being passed down?

George. That’s a conversation that is going on in the industry.  We are at a point of inflection as the owners and operators of our wineries are getting to retirement age.  A lot of Virginia wineries have no exit plan or continuity plan.  Veritas has plans for the next family generation, but it is an exception to the rule.  Some of the bigger wineries have such plans.  We will see in the next five to ten years what will happen to ownership continuity.  TBD.

Roger. Well, maybe I’ll call you in five years…For my last question, what are some non-research initiatives you’re excited about including legislative?

George. I’ll be most excited when there’s nothing going on in the legislative area.  We want to maintain. the privileges we have as farm wineries.  One area I’m excited about is our effort to connect back to the farm basis of farm wineries.  Efforts at “vine-to-table” can keep farmland in agricultural use because, as the bumper sticker says, “farmland lost is farmland lost forever.”  We want the public to understand that we really are an agricultural entity.  We want to increase requirement for farm wineries, such as by increasing the amount of acreage under vine, to avoid using the privileges to escape loopholes in county zoning rules.  I’m really excited about the grade breeding initiative.  It is truly a game-changer that could echo around the world. 

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* Bordeaux’s Château Montrose [Eutopia Estates]. 

**The Virginia Wine Marketing Office will create a marketing campaign to promote the new grape once it is available, probably some years from now.  See, Annual Conversation with Annette Boyd, posted January 3, 2025.

***THC is the psychoactive compound found in marijuana (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol).  THC infused beverages are legal in Virginia if the total THC is under .3% and no more than 2 mg of THC per package.  Other restrictions apply.  THC levels of .3% or more are classified as marijuana and not legal.  RTD means “ready-to-drink,” which includes premixed cocktails.  “To-Go” cocktails became popular during the Pandemic and are now available due to changes in Virginia law going into effect in 2025.